stationed in germany during vietnam war
The entire emphasis is on the narrow combat experience, Lair said. We have four children, plenty of grandchildren, both biological and through marriages, and five great-grandchildren. At the end of the spraying campaign in 1971, the remaining C-123 planes were reassigned to reserve units in the U.S. for routine cargo and medical evacuation missions spanning the next 10 years. Arriving in West Germany, was a shocking experience for the new Army recruit. In retirement he wrote Soldiering On in a Dying War focusing on the Vietnam drawdown and The Ohio State University in the Sixties.. Find out if you qualify for VA health care. At any moment all hell could break loose, Lair said. Home was tough because my parents did not agree with my volunteering. Ask me or any other serviceperson and they will tell you they are proud of their service, Shkurti said. Hollander says it's not a mistake to read a hint of resistance into the band's repertoire. Why is Netflix pouring billions into South Korean shows? In addition to meeting locals, walks off-base could provide valuable intelligence. 5) Venice, Italy. File a claim online. He was stationed in Gillenhausen, protecting a valley called Folda Gap. Dave. WebThe conventional wisdom was that everybody carried a rifle, patrolled the jungle and faced death daily, but thats false, said William Shkurti, who served as an artillery officer in a remote area about 300 yards from the Cambodian border in fall 1970. I was in Infantry AIT at Ft. Polk Nov. 68-Jan 69. "Bear in mind that these bands were all engaged in a show band contest in 1971 and 1972, and the winners of the that contest would then be able to tour Europe, and would also record an LP in the Armed Forces Network studios in Frankfurt. This is the official public website of the Headquarters U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Most of all, Army bands will strive to honor General George Washington's observation, "Nothing is more agreeable and ornamental than good music. He also wrote the liner notes, which reveal a surprising fact: The U.S. Army spends an estimated $200 million a year on music, and is the largest single employer of musicians in the country. I was going for many reasons, but the most important was to close a chapter of history I felt needed closing, Thornton said. In the late 65 through 1966, the Army Divisions outside of Vietnam, specifically CONUS and West Germany were hemorrhaging personnel for service in South Vietnam, these being primarily if not exclusively volunteers, these numbers had to be made good. Executing the construction program was a complex affair because American forces in West Germany had to use German construction offices and procedures to build facilities. In the late 65 through 1966, the Army Divisions outside of Vietnam, specifically CONUS and West Germany were hemorrhaging personnel for service in South Vietnam, these being primarily if not exclusively volunteers, these numbers had to be made good. At the height of the Vietnam War, Ali refused induction into the United States Army, citing his religious beliefs and opposition to the conflict. I assisted a medical officer suture up a Marine after a bar fight who was so drunk he didnt need an anesthetic. 6) Berlin, Germany. Anyone who served in the military during the war faced the possibility of being sent to Vietnam, though. But that tradition was set on its ear back in the late 1960s and early '70s, when the PFCs stationed overseas formed their own pop bands. Then, there was the shopping. But in Vietnam, the Cold War became an inferno. If you call it wrong, thousands of people could end up being killed, he said. After graduating from Ohio State University in 1968, William Shkurti said, I knew I was going to be drafted so I enlisted. The high rate may have been attributed to our being an Infantry MOS, but the only way you didn't go to Vietnam was because of the above reasons. Bronze Star and the Vietnamese Army Staff Medal First Class and is the author of four books about Vietnam including The War Everyone Lost and Won.. With pressures on USAREUR in the mid-1970s to reduce the size of its headquarters and budget, the command asked the Corps of Engineers to take responsibility for military construction in the theater. You would think (serving in Germany) would be a great duty, but it wasnt.. Long Binh was not a standard base, but it was home to the Armys Vietnam headquarters and showed the abundance and consumerism that was possible to create. To make it even more complicated, just what is a combat veteran? I thought it would be easy, but it was actually tough, said Shkurti, who served as a fire direction officer and supervised a six-person team. It was a huge fire. I think I never knew, or know even today, of any Vietnam-era vets I would not embrace as brothers. One would fly overhead about every 60 seconds, remembers the professor emeritus of political science at Saint Louis University. However, their wartime ally, the Soviet Union, soon became an enemy. The guys with the beer with hot food and hot showers, Appy said. 8) Bruges, Belgium. The enemy was the Soviet Union and the other signatories of the Warsaw Pact, including the German Democratic Republic, or East Germany. Another difference was the sense of solidarity he felt. Only about one out of seven were combat troops, said historian Chris Appy, history professor at University of Massachusetts Amherst. Like suburban sprawl, the largest American bases just kept getting bigger, Lair said. Veterans must show on a factual basis that they were exposed in order to receive disability compensation for diseases related to Agent Orange exposure. In the early years, dances were held on the streets of Berlin in summer months and in winter, the US Army organized Christmas parties for local children. Those recordings were lost for decades, until a collector discovered an East of Underground LP in 1997. That led to deep divisions between Washington and Berlin. At the end of the spraying campaign in 1971, the remaining C-123 planes were reassigned to reserve units in the U.S. for routine cargo and medical evacuation missions spanning the next 10 years. For the government ofLudwig Erhard (October 1963-November 1966) it was ultimately fatal. In November Thornton journeyed to Da-Nang, Vietnam, with his wife as a keynote presenter at the Asia Pacific Mediation Forum. David Hollander produced the compilation. 9) Luxembourg For guys drafted during Vietnam, what really were the odds they would be sent to Vietnam as opposed to remaining stateside, or sent to Germany or Korea? Everyone else went directly to Vietnam, or a few were sent to Ft. Benning to attend the NCO School or Airborne Training. There were swimming pools, bars, cheap booze, entertainment, dancers and strippers, American TV. You could watch The Beverly Hillbillies, Appy said. By The rockets, armed with nuclear warheads, became a political issue. Is it just the guy with the gun? Life athome goes on without them, and it must have been difficult to navigate when they returned, she said. WebThe United States Army has 40 military installations in Germany, two of which are scheduled to close. The mood around the country was not good for the military, not like today with cheers and applause for returning members. It's easy! Along with its allies, the US had liberated Germany from the Nazis. I talked to many men who felt sheepish that they didnt have those (combat) stories to share, Lair said. I was able to get into a band there. Napoleon said, An army marches on its stomach, and the U.S. military followed his advice. Its kind of like playing goalie for a soccer team. Ammunition storage facility, Heilbronn, West Germany (left); "All the branches of the armed services have always included music as part of their mission. For website corrections, write to hqwebmaster@usace.army.mil. After the defeat of Germany, the relatively small American force in Europe was preoccupied with the administration and reconstruction of their former foe. Dotted around US bases are numerous residential districts for American soldiers and their families, such as this residential district in Wiesbaden-Erbenheim. Most of his time was spent protecting government buildings from Vietnam War protesters. When we got home, everybody was the same, said Lomperis, a Saigon warrior who served in a support capacity at MACV (U.S. Military Assistance Command, Vietnam), also known as mafia HQ or Pentagon East.. My middle brother died five years ago from extended PTSD and the ravages of the drug addiction he endured while trying to cope with his memories from Vietnam. More military personnel played support roles than combat ones. In-depth strategy and insight into critical interconnection ecosystems, datacenter connectivity, product optimization, fiber route development, and more. Many celebrities joined in the protests. After Boston, Thornton served at Marines Corps Base Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. The sky swarmed with helicopters. Deploy network infrastructure faster and easier than ever before, with pre-packaged yet massively scalable infrastructure components for top packet and optical systems. Peace activists, however, saw them as a threat and held massive demonstrations. He was awarded the U.S. If you enlisted you would serve 3 years and chose your MOS. "The song selection includes songs that were playing in the States, and very much expressed the countercultural sentiments of political resistance in this country at that time," Hollander says. The following individuals may qualify for benefits related to Agent Orange exposure: Veterans may file a claim for disability compensation for health problems they believe are related to exposure to Agent Orange residue on post-Vietnam C-123 airplanes. Good food makes people feel at home, Lair said. Mastering these complicated and delicate international arrangements, EUD accomplished a large and complex construction program, especially during the 1980s. I was thinking I would have a better chance of determining where I would be sent.. After that, the search was on for as many of these Army bands as they could find. have hearing loss. He remembers his commanding officer Abrams as a political genius who turned the war around.. The songs East of Underground played weren't your run-of-the-mill patriotic marches in fact, some of them included controversial lyrics about race and politics. In response the Corps of Engineers drastically reduced the size of EUD and reconstituted it as the Europe District. One of the toughest parts of service was seeing people whose lives were ruined or lost because of the war, he said. At the end of the Vietnam War, the United States adopted a volunteer Army, but declining military expenditures made it difficult to keep the American forces combat ready and maintain the quality of life for soldiers and their families. Powered by Invision Community, Vietnam Era Draftees Stationed in W.Germany, South Korea, and CONUS, US MILITARIA FORUM - COLLECTORS PRESERVING HISTORY. For the next 17 years the Europe Division of the Corps executed the Army and Air Force construction programs in Europe and supported the NATO construction program. He says it was completely random, some bodies had to go to 7th Army and his lucky number came up. Over the years the US Army has become firmly entrenched in the German landscape. An official website of the United States government, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Headquarters Website, About the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Headquarters Website, Historical Vignette 105 - Engineers Played an Important Role in Europe During the Cold War, Deactivated Nuclear Power Plant Program (DNPPP), Regional Environmental and Energy Offices REEOs, Industry Information Re: COVID-19 Support, Strategic Sustainability Performance Plans, Engineering and Support Center, Huntsville, Humphreys Engineer Center Support Activity, G-1 Reserve Component Augmentation, Office of Human Resources Directorate, Hosted by Defense Media Activity - WEB.mil. Brutal tactics were the norm during the Vietnam War, and no one suffered more than the Vietnamese themselves, both in the North and the South. "So this was a very viable way to avoid active duty in Southeast Asia.". No matter where veterans served in Vietnam, they were a close witness to danger. The US soldiers also brought American culture to Germany. would have to use the scheduled bus service to get around the base, Lair wrote in Armed with Abundance.. They were so talented, I just assumed they would have a contract with the first studio they walked into.". Don't forget Panama and Alaska, Alaska itself in that time period had two Infantry Brigades separate stationed there. The winners toured other military bases and made records. I thought, hot dog, going to go relic hunting. They would tell him not to go down certain streets because it wasnt safe, so you would know something was brewing there, Lomperis said. Over 220 others have already been closed, mostly following the end of the Cold War in the 1990s. The liner notes of East of Underground: Hell Below conclude with a sort of benediction, lifted wholesale from the U.S. Army Field Manual: Because of the unique ability of music to communicate, bands will serve in different capacities of publicity and recruiting, and in the support of civil affairs. The family moved to Phoenix, Arizona, where they have been for the past 40 years. Thornton returned to school later in life and is now finishing his doctorate in business administration in the field of cross-cultural competency and conflict management. WebDuring the Vietnam War, the U.S. Air Force used C-123 aircraft to spray Agent Orange to clear jungles that provided enemy cover in Vietnam. The Vietnam War was a long, costly and divisive conflict that pitted the communist government of North Vietnam against South Vietnam and its principal ally, the United States. Well, one. Some 20 years later, US President George W. Bush went to war with Iraq over its alleged program to develop weapons of mass destruction. 2. After discharge in 1976, Thornton took his 4-year-old daughter and pregnant wife home to her family and used the GI Bill to earn an a degree in allied health sciences from University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. They gave up their lives back home. Health Care Some Air Force Reservists who were crew members on C-123 Provider aircraft, formerly used to spray Agent Orange during the Vietnam War, have raised health concerns about exposure to residual amounts of herbicides on plane surfaces. I know that was very dependent upon where you called home, but that was my reality, Thornton said. Hitt says he had already been in one Army band by the time he joined the group. In response to this fear, the United States deployed large forces to West Germany. We had an Infantry MOS Soldiers on one of our Sheridan Tanks. This is not about being negative or complaining, but simply having a balanced outlook for your transition. She served me milk and cookies, and we have been together now for 44 years, Thornton said. Drug abuse, overdoses, crime and traffic accidents led to several deaths within his unit. Despite separate residential districts, there has always been contact and exchange between German and American families. Knowing that the threat is so close by is an incentive for people to work together. Like all the other members, he was a draftee, and had come from a tiny town in Mississippi. Their silence carried a message and concealed the fact that many veterans served in the rear echelon and not in combat capacity, Lair said. WebHere are our top 13 places to see while youre stationed in Germany: (click on any city name below to learn more) 1) Prague, Czech Republic. 7) Cologne, Germany. A rare photo of East of Underground in performance. During the Vietnam War, the U.S. Air Force used C-123 aircraft to spray Agent Orange to clear jungles that provided enemy cover in Vietnam. He is seen here waving to his fans at Bremerhaven train station. The tensions between the two sides were demonstrated when US Army and Soviet Union tanks faced off in a divided Berlin. There werent enough NCOs (non-commissioned officers), not enough support or spare parts. I would have been called a coward by others from the small town I grew up in, so I never considered not volunteering. Buddy C. Thornton learned from his military service was Always live for the day. And there were the German-American friendship weeks every year. Error, please try again. I didnt carry a gun, Lomperis said. The US Army employed 17,000 American civilians in Germany in 2019. This massive program to improve American weaponry and conditions for troops and their families, supported by the commitment of huge resources to building the facilities required, was one factor in shaking the resolve of Soviet leaders and exposing the hidden weaknesses of the Soviet military and political systems. While having a positive attitude about any PCS is important, its equally important to have realistic expectations. The NATO maneuver Reforger I (Return of Forces to Germany) in Vilseck/Grafenwhr in 1969 was one of many joint war games held by the US Army and the Bundeswehr. He was with the 3rd Infantry Division in Schweinfurt. The goal of keeping soldiers well-fed was that they would be happy, stay out of trouble and avoid vices like drugs or prostitution, she said. That was where I met my wife. Not enrolled in the VA health care system? Regardless of how we each served, part of our soul was left in that place with those who never came back alive, and with those who suffered and died after, and we should be honored for our collective loss if for no other reason. In Germany the U.S. military was protecting West Germany against the threat of Russian invasion, but it wasnt imminent, Shkurti said. He could take that information back to the base. The experience that most people likely associate with Vietnam is the horror and deprivation of war, so its ironic that that wasnt the real experience of most Vietnam veterans, Lair said. Lomperis served two tours of duty in Vietnam in the Army and Defense Intelligence Agency. I had surgery shortly after the fire, then spent convalescent leave in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. You had no say in what your MOS would be. The big problem was that Saigon was Sodom and Gomorrah. VA decides these claims on a case-by-case basis. The post exchanges, or PXs, rivaled todays big box outlets for variety and selection, Lair said. Sign up for a new account in our community. I personally met over the years quite a few guys in my neighborhood that enlisted in the Army, 3 years like you said, interesting thing was that not one served in South Vietnam, even up to two duty station changes, in example serving in CONUS then Panama, etc, I recall one guy I met in a bar who enlisted for 3 1967-70, an Ordnance guy, said he served his whole three years after Basic (Bliss) and AIT (Aberdeen) as wheeled vehicle mechanic at West Point, you know in the regular army component at the academy. As the threat of imminent invasion receded in the late 1950s, U.S. Army Engineers continued to build and maintain facilities that supported American and NATO combat power and housed and supported U.S. forces and their families, now permanently stationed in West Germany. Supercharge your procurement process, with industry leading expertise in sourcing of network backbone, colocation, and packet/optical network infrastructure. Office of Accountability & Whistleblower Protection, Training - Exposure - Experience (TEE) Tournament, Military Exposure Related Health Concerns, War Related Illness & Injury Study Center, Clinical Trainees (Academic Affiliations), Post-Vietnam Dioxin Exposure in Agent Orange-Contaminated C-123 Aircraft, local VA Environmental Health Coordinator, Find out if you qualify for VA health care, diseases related to Agent Orange exposure, Call TTY if you Boy, I thought I had it made, Shkurti said with a small laugh. The American military presence in Germany began at the end of World War II. In 1972 Thornton enlisted in the U.S. Navy at 17 and trained to be a hospital corpsman. She was a USO (United Service Organizations) volunteer who entertained servicemen. After Nazi Germany surrendered on 8 May 1945, four countries representing the Allies (the United States, United Kingdom, Soviet Union, and France) asserted joint authority He attributed it to where he happened to be standing in a formation. One colonel joked, If we ever really got attacked, the V.C. The cover of East of Underground's self-titled LP. Given the popular conception that being drafted during Vietnam was a guaranteed ticket to the combat zone, Ive always found it amazing how many of the people I know who served in the Army or USMC during the Vietnam War never actually went to Vietnam. Both Germany and Vietnam were on the front lines of the Cold War. East of Underground was one such band a multiracial, seven-piece group stationed in Germany at the tail end of the Vietnam War. Im also more respectful of what servicepeople endure. His unit lost more men to overdose and traffic accidents in Germany than to combat in Vietnam. 2018 Petabit Scale, All Rights Reserved. None would be here if Vietnam never happened, so it creates bittersweet feelings but no regrets, Thornton said. We served honorably. We would take orders from Washington and from the five information streams (personnel, intelligence, operations, logistics and political implications) and use all that information to create an order of the day, Lomperis said. This large and rapid buildup required a tremendous amount of construction, carried out by Army Engineers and largely financed by occupied Germany. At least in our case. Lewis Hitt played guitar in East of Underground. Ukraine updates: Zelenskyy urges more effective air defense, Ukraine: Russia continues to target civilian sites, Ukraine's counteroffensive: Goals, opportunities, risks. The challenge was figuring out what the enemy would do. The thought of army music evokes a certain tradition say, trumpets and drums in the style of "Pershing's Own." WebIn An Army in Crisis Alexander Vazansky analyzes the social crisis that developed among the U.S. Army forces stationed in Germany between 1968 and 1975. The book became the first volume in aCenter of Military History series, U.S. Army in the Cold War. A new compilation pulls together some of those old records it's called East of Underground: Hell Below. Additionally, not all Vietnam-era veterans served in-country. German Chancellor Gerhard Schrder, knowing the majority of voters supported him, ruled out Germany's involvement. 800-829-4833, Veterans Crisis Line: Back at home over the decades, veterans themselves may have helped camouflage the roles they played during the war. So there was a great need for personnel outside South Vietnam through out the entire period, and the refusal to mobilize the Reserves and National Guard only exacerbated the problem. Tomorrow is too unpredictable, especially during deployment, he said. Youre in the hot seat. Many veterans struggled with feeling that their experience didnt measure up. On leave, Thornton would head home to see family and friends, but the war changed things. HMD released its report, Post-Vietnam Dioxin Exposure in Agent Orange-Contaminated C-123 Aircraft, Jan. 9, 2015. Men facing shipping out exhibited many types of behavior. There were Viet Cong all over the place, but if you were street-smart you stayed safe, Lomperis said. The Ramstein base is especially significant, since it is also headquarters of the United States Air Forces in Europe. Built over time for more than $130 million, Long Binh eventually had 3,500 buildings and 180 miles of road covering an area bigger than Cleveland. They worked in intelligence. This often creates barriers to their full integration into German society. He now is an adjunct professor in the John Glenn College of Public Service. We wore different uniforms. The report determined that it is possible that this exposure contributed to some adverse health effects. My close friend had a similar experience in 69-70. These facilities supported the large American and NATO forces stationed for almost fifty years on the front lines of the conflict between East and West, ready to confront a Soviet invasion. They were also stationed in Germany, Japan, Thailand, Philippines, Korea, Guam and the continental United States. You guessed it, my last name started with a T. Got a question 11Cav, during the Vietnam era/60s early 70s period, was there a difference between volunteering for the draft and outright enlisting?
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